I work with the elderly, and I find that it is a constant struggle not to let condescencion slip into my voice. Sometimes when people are experiencing psychomotor slowing (as happens in old age, and major depression), we assume that their brain is slow too. I just try to keep it in the forefront of my mind that the person I am speaking to is a fully mature adult who could probably teach me a thing or two about life.

I find myself speaking louder to people who don't speak English, I'm an idiot I know.

i used to work with an 11 year-old autistic boy who was a lot smarter than most of his therapists thought. one day a particularly obnoxious therapist was trying to instruct him in the art toilet training, since he had a tendency to urinate on himself at the most inconvenient times possible. she spoke to him in such a pedantic and condescending voice that i could see him getting progressively annoyed, so when left him alone in the room for a break i wasn't too surprised that he took the opportunity to pee into her half-empty can of soda. i was, however, surprised that he was able to wait for her to come back into the room, watch her drink the pee-soda combo and spew it all over the wall before erupting into laughter and admitting he was responsible for the awesome prank. deception of that caliber is really difficult for autistic people..

I hate that too, given that both of my parents are in mental health fields (my mom especially, she has many clients whom are group homers) I got to see a lot of that growing up.

One of the worst things growing up was that I tend to be a little weird myself (I've always wondered if I'm an aspie or something else), so I always had teachers / classmates either do the condescending thing or treat me like a live grenade. Shit, one time, there was a bomb threat taped to our school's door, and I was followed and questioned for about three days. Granted, that was during my "do drugs and be depressed" days, but for some people, especially those whom are prone to depression, that's almost worse than just kicking them square in the nuts.

To quote my 6 year old niece on her first day of school -

"Fuck you mishter, I'm shix, not shtupid!"

I don't think talking down to kids is any better then talking down to anyone else. Kids are generally smarter then we give them credit for and they communicate on the level we expect them too. Baby talk and condescension should be reserved for whining morons in the workplace.

I ran into a similar problem when I was first diagnosed with depression and anxiety. Suddenly people were treating me one of two ways: like I was immediately suicidal and nobody should ever say anything bad around me, or like I was 6 (I was 16).

I think it's amazing how anything looked upon as a "mental defect" immediately drops a person into a category of "stupid/slow," even depression and anxiety, two things EVERYONE experiences in their day-to-day dealings, just on a lesser level.

THANK YOU! I have experience with special needs education, and they often treat students like they are stupid. They might have ADD or an anxiety disorder, but that doesn't mean they're idiots. Even if they are idiots, there is not reason to talk to them like idiots. I don't talk to my dog like he's an idiot, and he still manages to understand and obey me. My dog isn't even smart enough to talk, and not even he need to be spoken to in idiot-language.

The worst part is, anyone who complains that they don't want to be patronized is dismissed. They are told they're being ungrateful, or that the only reason they are complaining is because they must lack the social skills to correctly interpret people.

Well, if literally no one listens to you, then for sure they're missing out. Tend to doubt that they don't, but hey.

I too was thinking along the lines of that I don't think it's respectful to talk to children in that manner either. If it's somehow coming from a place of deep affection, maybe. Otherwise, it's pretty much insulting wherever it's seen.

Awesome quote from you on the fucked in the head, and per Scootah's comment "shix not shtupid"!

Dr. Rob Note: I definitely agree with both you and Scootah on the talking to kids issue. I phrased it poorly in the post. I do that a lot. Phrase things poorly.

I whole heartedly agree with your message and invite you to get on your soap box any time you want, until , of course,you disagree with me.

I spent a stint in a hospital for suicide risk, and that was one thing that annoyed me greatly. While I admit I looked and felt like crap, I was still sharp enough to be able to understand and communicate complex thoughts, and I did so. The major frustration that I had was simply that I wasn't being listened to by a lot of the staff, or I found myself on the receiving end of a slow and condescending lecture about bipolar disorder.

I think part of it is that it's sort of easy to think of anyone with a mental illness as inferior, and think that one, with proper strength of intellect and character, would be able to control any problems. And as such, anyone suffering must lack in either character or intellect. It simply isn't true, and it contributes to the stigma attached to mental illness, and I find it especially frustrating when people in the field behave this way.

One of the reasons I like my current psychiatrist is that I feel welcome to ask questions about medications, and she goes as in depth as I want, without condescending to me. I think that's the way it should be.

I've worked with Japanese high school students who were in America learning English, and it always annoyed me when people did that.

Especially because most of them could comprehend English very well, just speaking in English was a problem.

I object to the idea that you should use a patronizing tone when speaking to children, too. We tend to severely underestimate how well they understand things - and how much they hate being spoken to as if they didn't understand anything.

Thank you. It's one thing to speak simply, knowing that someone might not be in a state for a complex conversation. It's another thing to speak down to them, and is likely to get your ass beat. I've spent some time in psychiatric hospitals, and the one thing that never helped was when someone assumed that I was incapable of understanding adult speech. That was more likely to make me ignore them/ act out, not less.

I hope if I ever have children they end up like Scootah's niece.
Like Java, I have worked in special education, and hated how little credit my students were given. I work in a field of more general education now, and see it there as well.

haha nice one Rob,

I've never seen you in real life but from your writing it's obvious you are a hard man and not to be fucked with!

Re your point about speaking to people like they're children, I totally agree. I also think its true for children themselves. One of the best ways I've always found to relate to kids was to speak to them like they're adults and they will want to live upto the respect you've granted them.

your loyal reader,
Jackmo

Maybe some part of the reason is that people want to feel good about giving social interaction to "defective" people without actually inviting them into a real conversation, which would be painful for them.

You rock, doc. Keep toeing the edge.

Having been a child pretty recently (just turned 18 five days ago) I'd like to add something: don't necessarily talk to children like they're children either. Nothing annoyed me more when I was, y'know, eight, than adults who acted like I didn't understand a word they were saying. Kids know more than you think, and if they need help, they can always ask for it.

Dr. Rob Note: Great point.

Hi Rob

I'm glad you also share my despisement (pretty sure that's a word) of people who alter the way they speak when talking to people who don't fit into their view of what is 'normal'. I have a vision impairment and people have raised their voice when speaking to me. Um ... last time I checked, my vision loss did not afect my hearing. I wonder if people adopt that child-like cadence to their speach because adulthood is proving too difficult for them and it's the only way they know to transgress?

I'll bet a dollar if you asked those condescending people what they do for a living, they hold some kind of position of authority. You know, those school teachers that are constantly teaching, the cops that are always copping and the therapists that are forever...therapizing.

Um, no offense, *Of Course*, but You come across as Much more offensive than that hospital admin. (who, after all, didn't say anything so terribly wrong, just used a loud voice and an annoying tone to say it)Definitely bad, but not horrible. YOU, on the other hand, write This: "I'm like one of those gunslingers who swings open the doors at the saloon ready to blow people away. Except instead of a Derringer or a Smith & Wesson I have a 'You too can Have High Self-Esteem' handout on one hip and a Positive Thoughts Worksheet on the other. That's how I roll."
I HOPE to god you were *kidding*. It's hard to tell. But, let me tell you, anyone that "gunslings" their way to Me, handing out STUPID handouts is just cruisin' for a bruisin'. Sorry, Doc Rob. I know the truth can hurt. Please understand that I still think you are a Special Person, though.:)

I'm glad people actually are reading this and seemingly listening. Now we need a "Stop Talking To The Unemployed As If They Are Mentally Ill Children!"

Hey, now... I think I have my next blog! THANKS!

It's especially strange when people don't even realise they're doing it.

Awhile back I had one of my pts thank me for not talking down to them, which I found curious. I've always thought Rogers had the best approach of trying to walk with the people he worked with, instead of trying to tell them what they need....so that's what I do.